by mike haines
PART I: MARK MANSON LIED TO YOU
1. If you’re a serious student of game, you have read Models by Mark Manson.
In my opinion, it’s the best book on success with women that’s ever been written.
Unfortunately, some of the teachings of this book have been turned into an ideology which many guys in the seduction community now cling to dogmatically.
2. The rejection myth
In this post I am going to annihilate one of the core teachings of Models — an idea which has been embraced as revealed truth in the seduction community for years now.
This is the idea that pursuing women who have rejected you is a “time sink”, and you should simply move on to those who are more interested.
3. The premise of the myth:
Here’s what Mark writes in his book:
“I’ll say this, in six years, after approaching thousands of women, and hooking up with hundreds of them, I can think of less than 10 instances where a woman was flat out unreceptive towards me and I ‘won her over’. If she shuts you down, tells you to go away, tells you she’s not interested, tells you she has a boyfriend—move on. Seriously, get over it and move on. You’re wasting your time. There are 3.1 billion women on this planet. She’s not worth it.”
While this advice is good for beginners, it promotes a DEFEATIST ATTITUDE which will prevent you from getting laid with the most attractive women in the long-run.
Specifically, it will prevent you from attracting and mating with the kind of woman I call a “Total 10”. This is because the highest quality women almost invariably give you the harshest tests, and if you’re inexperienced (or even intermediate), you will misinterpret these tests as “rejection”.
4. My background
I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 18. After my first girlfriend broke things off, I spent 2 years involuntarily celibate.
At 21, I discovered “red pill” ideas (back then it was just called game). I started working on my cold approach skills with a relentless, almost autistic intensity.
I approached about 30 girls a week for some 78 consecutive weeks before I got my first same night lay from cold approach.
From that point, it got easier. I knew game was real, and now it was just a matter of getting more efficient at it.
Soon I was pulling ass every two weeks, more or less, like clockwork. I banged a lot of pretty girls from my college, along with the occasional model, actress or exotic dancer.
Six years later I’m in a long-term relationship with the girl pictured here. We plan on having kids soon.
5. A “Total 10” defined
I’m with a woman who is a Total 10 to me. I want you to be able to do the same.
When I talk about a Total 10, I mean a girl who is (to you) a 10/10 in both looks and personality.
She’s exquisitely beautiful and highly feminine.
She’s the type of girl who’s so pretty that it physically hurts when you see her on another guy’s arm.
This is the kind of woman I want you to be with.
And this is the calibre of woman you will never get if you have internalized the idea that you should only focus on women who make themselves easy to approach.
THE PSYCHOLOGY OF A “TOTAL 10”
6. When you approach a 9 or 10, it almost NEVER goes easy at the start.
Commonly, she will give you the following kinds of reactions:
- looking at you like what you’re doing is weird
- turning away and pretending to ignore you
- laughing at you or making a face
- giving you just enough attention to get you hooked, then running away without explanation
- kissing you, then disappearing to the bathroom and the next time you see her she’s flirting with some other guy
7. These hostile reactions are NORMAL
They don’t go away when you get better at game, or get more good looking (trust me, I’ve done both over the years)
These hostile reactions are normal, and they are necessary.
They are the girl’s (unconscious) way of testing you.
8. Testing you for what exactly?
Dominance? Charisma? Value? Alpha male characteristics?
It is much more simple.
She already knows you’re a man of value because you approached her.
This puts you in the top 5% of all men.
So why is she testing you?
9. She’s testing your desire for her.
“Is this man so strongly attracted to me that he is willing to overcome any obstacle to get me?”
If she’s interested in you, this is the burning question a Total 10 wants to find out with every fibre of her being.
And this is why she tests you, irritates you intentionally and places obstacles in your path…. even after you’ve displayed value by approaching her.
10. Being an alpha male is not enough
Women want alpha males.
However, a Total 10 has many alpha males competing for her.
You have to be alpha male — and you have to have a profound and aching desire for her.
A desire so energizing that it enables you to blast through any bullshit she throws at you with a smile, and keep pursuing her even in the face of seemingly insurmountable odds.
11. This is what all women crave on the deepest level.
It is the plot of every romance novel.
It’s the driving impulse of every erotic story.
It is the reason women spend hours doing their hair and makeup to lure as much male attention as possible — but then, upon arriving at the club, go to great pains to make themselves appear unattainable. Unapproachable.
12. She wants to be chased.
Luring you close… and then making herself “inaccessible” so that you’ll chase her… is actually what turns her on.
She wants to be pursued.
She wants to be, in a sense, overpowered by your desire for her.
This is arousing to women.
12. “The desire of the man is for the woman. The desire of the woman is for the desire of the man.” (Madame de Stael)
A “Total 10” knows her own value (to some extent), and she wants to feel like you’re going to lengths to get HER which you’d almost never go to with any other girl.
And so she tests you. She places obstacles in your path.
And occasionally, she flat out REJECTS you — just to see if you’ll come back and try again.
When you do, she becomes aroused by your persistence and your desire.
When you don’t, she forgets about you and moves on.
Rejecting you is part of her process of becoming attracted to you.
REJECTING YOU IS PART OF A WOMAN’S PROCESS OF BECOMING ATTRACTED TO YOU
13. White trainers
This has all been pretty theoretical, so let me give you a concrete example of how this dynamic works.
A few years ago I was in a club on my own, and I saw a pretty girl walking through.
She was about 18. Blue eyes, dark hair, great boobs, long legs. She was wearing a mini-skirt and white trainers.
I walked up to her. The floor was empty apart from me and her. There were about a dozen people watching us, seated around us on various couches.
14. The ultimate humiliation
I extended my hand to the girl. “Hey I’m Mike. Who are you?”
She looked at me and made a face.
She walked past me without even breaking her stride, leaving me standing with my hand held out in mid-air like a chump.
The people on the couches laughed and hollered at this.
My cheeks burned with shame. I could actually feel my testosterone levels plummeting. I quickly fled the scene.
15. “How awkward can I make this”
Around twenty minutes later, I was out in the smoking area nursing my wounds.
I spotted the girl in the white trainers smoking a cigarette with her friends.
Out of some kind of perverse masochistic instinct, I said to myself, “I wonder what would happen if I approached her again?”
How awkward can I make this?
I wanted to find out.
So I approached her as if nothing had happened.
“You’re cute,” I said bluntly. “I had to meet you.” I held out my hand.
She smiled at me. I got a look at her eyes properly for the first time. She was really beautiful. “Hi!” she said. “Who are you?”
16. It was like I was speaking to a DIFFERENT PERSON.
We got to talking and I started teasing her a little bit and put my arm around her.
Soon we were making out.
We left together 20 minutes later.
An hour later she was naked in my bed sucking my cock.
As we cuddled in bed afterwards, I asked her what caused her to change her mind. I was genuinely curious about what the fuck had just happened.
“What do you mean?” she said.
“When I approached you near the bar, you totally blew me off. But when I approached you in the smoking area, you were into it. What did I do differently the second time?”
“You never approached me at the bar,” she said.
“Yes I did.”
“Hmmm. I don’t remember that.”
18. Cracking the code
After that experience I started doing things differently.
From then on, when a girl rejected me, I would walk away, then come back and re-engage her an hour, twenty minutes, or even just 5 minutes later.
Shockingly, almost every single one of the girls I “re-approached” after being initially rejected responded extremely positively to me on my second approach.
I ended up fucking dozen of pretty girls who had—just hours earlier—seemingly “rejected” me.
All from simply walking away and then re-initiating with them again a few minutes later.
19. The art of “flipping”
Pretty soon, I largely dispensed with the need to re-approach altogether.
Now when a girl “rejected” my approach, I didn’t even take it seriously any more.
I just kept talking to her, teasing her and smiling like a fuckhead anyway.
Almost every time I did this, the girl would sooner or later “flip” from being non-responsive and bitchy to being friendly and flirtatious.
Again—it was like talking to a completely different person.
20. Biologically programmed
This has worked so consistently for me that I’ve come to believe women are actually biologically programmed to respond to persistence in this way — much the same way that we are biologically programmed to be turned on by big boobs or a flash of bare leg.
In other words, it’s not a choice.
When you can hold frame and tease her playfully in the face of her initial resistance, she will be as attracted to you as you are by seeing a hot 21 year old in a bikini.
It’s an automatic, unconscious response which she has no control over.
She may hate you, find you irritating and consider you loathsome.
But she will be attracted to you.
THE BOTTOM LINE
21. The proper response to a woman “rejecting” you, telling you to go away, telling you she has a boyfriend—is to hold frame, SMILE LIKE A FUCKING SHARK and continue talking to her in a playful and challenging way.
If you can do this convincingly, she will slowly turn from unreceptive… to attracted and aroused.
Sometimes it happens immediately.
Other times it takes a few “tries” before she starts to warm up.
But it happens almost every time.
(Very often you’ll find that reason she was “cold” initially was just that she felt nervous and self-conscious around you.
In other words, you were actually too high value, and it caused her to become shy and reactive.)
Since learning this, this is where around 80% of my lays from cold approach have come from.
In one form or another, it’s how I attracted every every really hot girl I’ve ever dated, slept with or was in an LTR with — including my current LTR.
22. You’re not going to be able to do this well immediately.
The first few times you try it, it won’t really work.
However, once you get good at this — it is the secret which unlocks the entire game.
When you respond non-chalantly to the fact that she “rejected” you, and continue talking to her in a relaxed and playful way, this is what MAKES HER attracted to you.
23. Holding frame and being playful and relaxed in the face of her initial rebuff is what makes her aroused by you.
Persisting in the face of her initial cold response is not something you do in order to be able to game her.
It is the game.
24. The only way you can prove this to yourself is by doing it.
If you’re an online theory autist then don’t even bother thinking about any of this.
It will only work for guys who are GOING OUT and ACTUALLY APPROACHING.
I can’t prove it works to you with words.
You have to actually go out and try this for a while (and get decently good at it, because it is a skill) before you’ll see it works with your own eyes.
But it does work.
And if you don’t understand this crucial part of the game, you simply will not get the women you really want.
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
Q: OK, SO WHAT CONSTITUTES A “REAL” REJECTION? WHEN SHOULD YOU GIVE UP?
A: This was a question I got a lot in response to my “Get Laid Like A Warlord” post.
A better way to phrase the question is this:
How many times should you keep trying with a girl, in the face of her giving you a hostile or negative reaction?
The answer is FOUR.
You can (and must) try up to FOUR times, or else you will simply seem like too much of a push-over to be attractive.
Her first THREE rebuffs are to be regarded as TESTS.
Her FOURTH rebuff is to be regarded as a real and sincere rejection—and should be honored with a certain formal respect. That’s when you move on.
If you keep trying to get with her after four times of being rebuffed in an interaction, that’s where you start to legitimately look like a low value creep.
If you persist LESS than four times, however, you simply will not convey enough information about your status in the dominance hierarchy for her to become attracted to you.
This is called the Four Times Rule, and I did not invent it. A guy called Alexander did — and I am forever grateful to him for doing so.
(Alex used to teach for RSD. He now runs his own thing — check him out on Youtube HERE.)
Q: SO YOU’RE SAYING LOOKS DON’T MATTER AT ALL AND I CAN BE 200 POUNDS OVERWEIGHT AND I JUST HAVE TO KEEP PERSISTING WITH THE HOTTEST GIRL IN THE CLUB AND SHE’S GOING TO DROP HER PANTIES AND FUCK ME RIGHT THERE?
This will not work for you if you’re morbidly obese.
It will not work for you if you’ve got extreme health problems, open sores all over your face, or have a cock where your nose should be and a nose where your cock should be.
This advice will work for average, typical looking guys, with good hygiene, who are in decent shape, have decent style, a nice haircut, and good clothes.
In other words, it will work for 99% of the guys here reading this.
I’m not interested in getting into autistic arguments about the relative importance of looks and game.
I’m not a particularly good looking guy but I’ve made it work. If this causes you cognitive dissonance, take it elsewhere. I’m here to help people like me—regular, boring, normal guys who want an edge.
Contrary to what the media would like you to believe, the vast majority of men who study game online are not obese, basement dwelling neckbeards.
Getting into arguments about “b-b-but it won’t work for the fedora neckbeard morbidly obese virgin D&D players!” is a complete and utter waste of time, because such hard-cases actually constitute a fractional minority of the people reading this.
(If you don’t believe me, just look at the crowd in videos of an RSD seminar, or the 21 Convention.)
Q: THIS IS TOO MUCH WORK. I’LL JUST STICK TO TINDER / PORN / ANIME / MY FLESHLIGHT / WAIFU PILLOWS / ETC
A: You’re right that this is too much work to do with every girl. That’s not what I’m recommending.
This is appropriate only to do with women you’re really sexually attracted to.
In other words, this will only work on girls who have a femininity about them that deeply energizes you.
Another way of putting it is…
You know when you see a girl who’s so pretty you immediately get nervous and get butterflies in your stomach?
This is to be used on THOSE kinds of women. The ones whose beauty and feminine energy truly inspires you.
A lot of girls you approach will just be “practice approaches”, or approaches to warm up when you get in the venue, or approaches simply to be social and express yourself.
You’re not especially attracted to the girl, and although you might fuck her once, you wouldn’t keep her around.
What I’m advocating here is NOT APPROPRIATE in those situations, because it’s inauthentic.
Pursuing a woman in the face of tests and resistance only works when it’s pure. And it’s only pure when you’re doing it out of a genuine and sincere desire for her.
If you don’t feel this desire for women — if you don’t feel butterflies in your stomach when you see a beautiful girl — then you need to cultivate this, because it’s what makes everything else in game work.
Do nofap (hardmode—no “edging”). Lift heavy weights for testosterone.
Drink protein shakes, and make sure you’re maxing out or exceeding your protein macros every day.
(This last one seems trivial, but I only started doing it properly a year ago and fucking hell has it ever made me hornier.)
Q: STOP ATTACKING MARK MANSON. HE’S CONTRIBUTED MORE TO THE PICKUP COMMUNITY THAN YOU HAVE
A: This shouldn’t be construed as an attack on him personally.
I am instead attacking a particular ideology which has taken hold in the manosphere/PUA community — partially as a result of the popularity of his book — and which says that pursuing a woman who has “rejected” you is a “time-sink”.
This advice is a “white lie” which is actually very good for beginners.
He’s telling his audience (who are mainly complete newbies to game) what they need to hear to start approaching, and not take negative reactions too seriously.
However, when this “time sink” idea is taken dogmatically, it hinders your ability to attract the women you want by promoting a defeatist mentality and and making you easily demoralized.
I neg Mark Manson a bit in this post, but it’s in good humor (like all my negs). I respect him as a writer and love the core message of Models.
Q: WHAT IF THE GIRL SCREAMS AT YOU OR HITS YOU OR GIVES YOU AN EXTREME RESPONSE? SHOULD YOU STILL KEEP TRYING UP TO FOUR TIMES?
A: If the girl is giving you extreme responses like this, there’s something very, very wrong with how you’re playing the game.
What I’m advocating here will ONLY work if your approach is chill and normal.
If you’re using extremely “high risk / high reward” forms of physical game (grabbing the girl immediately on the approach, trying to kiss her etc), then that changes the equation quite a lot.
I’m not saying using aggressive physical game doesn’t work — it often does, and in some environments it’s actually the only game that works.
But in this case, you need to be very well calibrated to how she’s responding. This is a topic for another time, however.
Q: DOESN’T THIS RISK MAKING WOMEN FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE AND GETTING HIT WITH A HARASSMENT CHARGE?
A: Talking to somebody is not a violation of their rights. She can walk away any time she wants.
As long as you’re not being physically invasive, you have the right to talk to anyone you want in a social venue (or even on the street in the day), and they have the right to walk away if they’re uncomfortable.
(Don’t even look at a woman in work.)
If the girl is telling you to go away, but she’s still standing in front of you without moving, guess what? It’s a free country. You can talk to whoever you want, and they can leave whenever they want.
A little trick you can do any time you’re trying to make some magic happen and she tells you to go away is this:
Simply tell her, “You’re free to leave whenever you want.”
90% of the time, not only will she NOT leave when you say this, but she’ll grin and start laughing because you’ve called her bluff.
Women like men, guys.
I know this might seem like a huge bombshell (especially in our current environment), but attractive women actually enjoy talking to men, and they get good emotions from being flirted with and pursued by a cool guy.
- Man up, you sons of bitches. You need to start ENJOYING a bit of conflict in your approaches.
- Let it energize you. Let it motivate you to double down and ramp up the fucking charisma levels even higher.
- Walking away from every woman who gives you the slightest negative feedback, and thinking that this is “saving you time”, is A PHILOSOPHY OF LOSERS.
- I want you to be energized by apparent rejection.
- I want you to get HARD when you heard the word “no”. That goes for whether you hear it from a girl, your boss, that prospect you’re trying to close, or whoever else.
And on that note, I leave you with the immortal words of the man who is in spirt and should be in actuality the REAL patron saint of the pickup community — not leftist soy boy “Mark Manson”, but him they call The Bronze Age Pervert:
“Ancient men conquered cities and put them to the sword and fire. Meanwhile you go to WINE BAR with ‘gf’ and enjoy tasteful banter.. YOU ARE GAY!!” — BAP, 2017